• Tony says:

    A person who abuses you puts you in a position where you have to act, if their abuse were physical what would you do? If it were toward a child, what would you do? If the unfaithful partner has children, the infidelity is towards the children. Infidelity makes marriage vows null and void, it's a two way agreement, you have a choice but not an obligation to stay and if the abuse is serial and ongoing? You have a hand to play in your own abuse. And yet, I don't take on board what the psychic has to say. You did not get abused or cheated on because you needed to learn a lesson; you did because the other party has a problem. Otherwise, they cheated for your benefit, so you could learn a lesson and if they had hit you? What if they hit the children, would that be for your benefit or that of the child? So that you can both learn from the experience? This perspective on suffering is very 'spiritual'. An alternative offered by existentialists is that life and events have no meaning other than the meaning we choose to give them – who is right? I'm not advocating one perspective over another, merely suggesting that we should not accept any on face value.
    This is not from me, this is from a website on the subject…
    “You vowed that no matter what happens you will not cheat when you get married.
    This is what the marriage vow means, and when you take marital vows, that’s what you are telling your spouse.
    Therefore whatever “reasons” a cheater may give for cheating, are really only justifications that the cheater has established. In fact, when analysing the pre-affair situation, it often can be demonstrated that the cheater created or exacerbated the problems he or she is complaining about.
    What I am trying to communicate here is that looking for “rational reasons” your spouse cheated isn’t getting to the heart of the issue. In fact, the “rational reasons” might add insult to injury by making it seem that the injured person was at fault.”

    • hosea_gomer says:

      I agree, Tony – there might be "mitigating circumstances", as in a traumatic childhood, but it still takes a decision to cheat, even if the decision is not to actively make one but rather go with the momentum. Lots of explanations, no excuses. The explanations though if valid should help us to forgive the MLCer. In the end it is all about being responsible for our own life, our own decisions – we are what we think and we can decide what we think. Each and every waking moment in our life we have to make decisions and while we might not be able to choose the circumstances we have to make them in our response to these circumstances is entirely up to us. There are no excuses

  • Stayed says:

    I loved this! Great blog! Overdue in fact.

    The one thing missing in the forum is the discussion of alternatives, in spite of the fact that we have wonderful role models such as Moving Forward, just one to mention. So many members are stuck, in spite of the fact that they have been in this situation for 24 months and longer. They are STUCK on only one ACCEPTABLE outcome, "A RESTORED MARRIAGE"!

    I don't know whether Lesser's conclusions were any more valid then anybody else. I would love to know, if she has any "regrets", as looking back one often see's things differently. Seeing as her affair was 20 years ago, she remarried, obviously moved on in a whole new direction.
    My questions would be:
    1. Did you succeed? Did you GROW into who you were meant to be?
    2. Did your h fulfill his destiny more effectively without her?
    3. Did her "soul" learn whatever the lesson was suppose to be?
    4. Was it worth, hurting so many others?

    Ahhhhhhh, now there would be a book I think many of us, would love to read. Honest answers!

    I must say, I am very pleased it was not ME who was faced with these questions and decisions. I only had to look and deal with this situation as the "rejected" party. In so many ways, I had the advantage. It did not seem it at the time, but I was the one left with the options. I was the one who could make choices and not be HELD responsible for the rest of the people in our family. Sort of a back door exit from a place that perhaps, was not always as wonderful as we want to believe.

    The Betrayer will be the one held responsible for the outcome of future unhappy people, not the BETRAYED.

    Excellent article RCR. Best one you have written yet. Thank you.

    hugs Stayed

  • orwhatyouwill says:

    I think Lesser (or any human being) can look back on their life and see how one event influenced another, which turned into this or that path and had this or that result eventually leading to the here and now. You can look at it as “what had to happen” or you can look at it as one of a zillion different paths that could have been followed. Lesser chose to see her affair as a brilliant awakening… a Phoenix moment or whatever she calls it, and she has devoted her life to helping people have this kind of “awakening.”

    I don’t believe a “Phoenix moment” or crisis is a necessary part of living life as an authentic human being. I don’t believe in destiny. I believe in free will and making choices. I also believe each of us is not the center of the universe and that we have a responsibility toward others (Golden Rule). BTW I am not religious at all.

    You hear what you want to hear. I’m guessing Lesser had more folks telling her she was an ass than she had encouraging her to look to new horizons, but she chose to listen to the psychic telling her what she wanted to hear.

    To me, Lesser took an experience (her affair) and guides (her shaman lover and a psychic) and decided, while still wearing her MLC shit goggles and probably in the midst of lust-induced dementia (these are terms used by people on the midlife board), that life with H#1 was not worth returning to, because she had bigger and better things ahead… more, better sex, more excitement, more LIFE! Woohoo!

    Similar to many of our MLCers? Probably. Admirable? Not to me. The only inevitable path she could have taken to fulfillment in life? I don’t think so. But she did choose it, and she’s found herself content where she ended up, and so she’s interpreted the affair that triggered her to take this path as the golden phoenix moment in her life… a brilliant awakening. That, to me, is justification of the means (the affair).

    I looked back to my reading journal to remind myself about the book, which I read a while ago. I felt it was a weird mishmash/misreading of philosophies, psychology, and mysticism and that she tried to pull it all together into something she teaches to others. Odd ideas.

    I wrote this in my journal (and please note this was my personal reaction to the book… not meant as an unbiased review or for anyone else's eyes, but I thought I would share it with you here): “I do not believe people that have basic coping skills, morals, and feelings of self-worth need to have a crisis (breaking open) in order to grow as human beings. I believe the crisis is an error… not something to aspire to, but a possibility to be aware of and thoughtfully avoid. The smartest thing I ever read through all of this was Bill Roberts explaining the psychology of MLC and saying that it’s unfortunate when people mistake these things for external realities… the projections, the anima/animus, the shadow, the soulmate… the mistake is thinking these are external. They are not. They are internal. That is the meaning of “soul.” It’s not about external reality. It’s about internal reality. Searching for them externally is an error… acting on these things externally is simply misbehavior. Immoral, amoral, immature, narcissistic misbehavior. I reacted really strongly to this book. It’s total, utter bullshit.”

  • moira says:

    waht is the name of the book by Bill Roberts?

  • Rollercoasterider says:

    "Crossing the Soul's River A Rite of Passage for Men" by William O. Roberts

  • orwhatyouwill says:

    moira, here is an interview with Bill Roberts about his book Crossing the Soul's River: http://www.menweb.org/crossoul.htm

  • >